[Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if you like wrestling!
Curtis Frazier
cfrazier at ceoexpress.com
Tue Mar 6 16:01:56 PST 2018
I re-read and I stand corrected...apologies. All you state is true. I just
read that PSU has 11x more funds in their club than we do..and we are in 2nd
place. Money doesn't talk, it yells.
I remain faithful. We had a bad turn of luck with Gross, Teasdale, Renteria
no longer on the team, so these things happen. PSU is not going away. I
think tOSU will settle lower than they are, and it will be back to a 2-3
horse race next year and for a few more.
The ultimate good news is that we are consistently one of the best teams in
the nation, year in and year out. It is good to be a fan of a sport In which
we are so well represented, right?
From: Herky <herky-bounces at lists.herky.net> On Behalf Of Jeff Napier
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 6:28 PM
To: herky at lists.herky.net
Subject: Re: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if
you like wrestling!
I saw this on another site which give you an indication of the significant
difference between tOSU / PSU and Iowa as far as the quality of recruits.
Anyone ranked in top 10 p4p gets a "1." Someone ranked 11-20 gets a "2." And
so on. If not in top 100, considered NR.
tOSU
125 1
133 1
141 1
149 2
157 1
165 10
174 1
184 1
197 9
Hwt 1
PSU
125 NR
133 NR
141 1
149 1
157 1
165 1
174 1
184 1
197 5
Hwt 1
Iowa
125 1
133 NR
141 7
149 3
157 1
165 1
174 NR
184 NR
197 9
Hwt 2
Also, PSU had a "1" at 125 until Suriano transferred, and a "2" at 133 until
Cortez grew/under-performed. tOSU originally had another "1" at 165 until
White transferred out.
_____
From: Herky <herky-bounces at lists.herky.net
<mailto:herky-bounces at lists.herky.net> > on behalf of Jeff Napier
<jnapier111 at outlook.com <mailto:jnapier111 at outlook.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 10:40 AM
To: herky at lists.herky.net <mailto:herky at lists.herky.net>
Subject: Re: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if
you like wrestling!
Curtis - I did not say that Iowa won't climb back to the top. I just said
that it would be very tough and require significant investment in the HWC
and new facilities and much better recruiting.
I think they have made the important first steps concerning HWC and
facilities. Hiring Perry as coach of HWC was huge. They are in the planning
phase for the new facility and a couple of people have already pledged $1
million each toward this.
Recruiting also seems to be better but for every Top 10 guy that Iowa gets
PSU gets two or more. I am not clear how you close that gap with the
recruiting tactics used by PSU. And we have not mentioned Ohio State but
they seem to be recruiting right there with PSU.
Tom Brands has said numerous times that they are at a disadvantage
recruiting because they do it the right way.
You talk about the stars aligning for PSU and Ohio State. I remember when
PSU had Taylor and Ruth. Everyone said wait until these guys graduate and
PSU will come back to the pack. Well now we are looking at Retherford,
Nolf, Nickel, Hall , etc. And the next group following them have the same
credentials so there is no reason to think they wont be just as good. Iowa
has to figure out how to get to that level.
Agree that Tom And Terry are the guys. I have no interest in a change.
_____
From: Herky <herky-bounces at lists.herky.net
<mailto:herky-bounces at lists.herky.net> > on behalf of Curtis Frazier
<cfrazier at ceoexpress.com <mailto:cfrazier at ceoexpress.com> >
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 6:34 PM
To: herky at lists.herky.net <mailto:herky at lists.herky.net>
Subject: Re: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if
you like wrestling!
Addressing the elephant in the (literal) room - Jeff is spot on below.
Recruiting is at the core. Continuing my football analogy, the likelihood of
getting a Josey Jewell (2 star lighting it up on a national level) is very
slim. Top talent always migrates to top programs, which is the legitimate
reason why programs in all sports at the top remain at the top. As for the
money and 'soft schollys', that happens. Does it happen at PSU? Pretty sure
it does. Does it happen at Iowa? probably at a much lesser degree. Should it
happen? Absolutely not as the rules currently are written.
Where I disagree with you, Jeff, is that Iowa won't climb back up again. We
have a good room, and some solid recruits. The stars aligned for tOSU and
PSU for the last few years. I will go out on a limb and say - look at the
football programs of the top wrestling programs - a pretty solid fan base of
boosters and deep pockets - they could either distribute the wealth or be an
excellent learning opportunity on how to do it right and not get caught -
but I have no proof, so that is speculative.
I want 1st place, no doubt..but if we can get this far with what we are
working with, I remain faithful to our ability to get on top again.
And just to address it - I think Tom and Terry are absolutely the right
guys to continue leading this program - hands down. Maybe some more help
with recruiting (not replace, but assist). Having Mark Perry in the HWC room
is a good move and will help draw some guys, which will pay off. But no
coaching changes...very seldom works and especially when there is no one
with the immediate pedigree to even be considered.
From: Herky <herky-bounces at lists.herky.net
<mailto:herky-bounces at lists.herky.net> > On Behalf Of Jeff Napier
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 6:03 PM
To: herky at lists.herky.net <mailto:herky at lists.herky.net>
Subject: Re: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if
you like wrestling!
June - I think Iowa can get to the top again but it is going to be very
tough.
- First can they raise the $$$ needed to get the HWC funded at the
level like the NLWC in addition to raising enough to build a new stand alone
Wrestling facility that is the best in the country.
- Second - Recruiting. You need Top 10-15 pfp high schools studs to
make up a big percentage of your line up if you want to compete with PSU. I
think Iowa has changed their recruiting in recent years to give more money
to fewer guys to try and get the best. It has paid off with the likes of
Kemerer, Marinelli, Warner and Lee. But Iowa needs to have 7-8 guys like
this not 4. With the other weights you hope that guys like Murin, Young,
Turk can develop so they score some points at Nationals. Related to
recruiting is a constant buzz that PSU is using the money in the NLWC to get
around the 9.9 scholarship limitations. I don't know all the details and not
sure if I will get this right but basically you go to PSU for little money
and then get your loans paid off through the NLWC and doing camps where the
money comes from PSU boosters.
- Practically how does this play out. PSU seems to add 3-4
Top guys every year. Iowa has limited money this year and is basically
limited to getting one top 20 guy plus Terry Brand's son.
- Iowa high school wrestling also seems to be down which also
makes it harder. You basically have one guy, Sorensen, from Iowa that is a
top guy.
- On a positive note Iowa should have more money in 2019 and
some of the guys around the program seem to think it is going to be a very
good class starting with Patrick Kennedy out of Kasson-Mantorville, MN
(where Stoll is from)
_____
From: Herky <herky-bounces at lists.herky.net
<mailto:herky-bounces at lists.herky.net> > on behalf of uiowa75
<uiowa75 at gmail.com <mailto:uiowa75 at gmail.com> >
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 4:14 PM
To: herky at lists.herky.net <mailto:herky at lists.herky.net>
Subject: Re: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if
you like wrestling!
what was up with Marinelli this past weekend..he looked so good against PSU
Joseph a couple of weeks ago ?? nerves, his knee, coditioning...or all ?
THX. for all your insight as always Curtis
Sent from my Galaxy TabR A
-------- Original message --------
From: Curtis Frazier <cfrazier at ceoexpress.com
<mailto:cfrazier at ceoexpress.com> >
Date: 3/5/18 3:53 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: herky at lists.herky.net <mailto:herky at lists.herky.net>
Subject: Re: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if
you like wrestling!
Absolutely, June - absolutely.
Right now (this year) is just not our time. PSU has 5 out of 10 national
champions returning this year. tOSU has 3 returning NCAA champions and a
slew of great wrestlers (their best team ever IMHO), and Michigan has a
tremendous team as well that has some great experience (probably at parity
with us). 16 of the 20 B10 finalists came from these 3 programs (and will
all be likely All Americans). We brought 1 senior and a slew of
underclassmen to the dance. They performed as well as could be expected.
Next year, we will be back in the mix.
As far as analogies, think football...We are Alabama. An old dynasty who is
always in the mix, but has streaks of success, with a few down years, but
always up towards the top. Parity is starting to appear across the sport.
Here is how I see the analogy (my opinions only):
FOOTBALL WRESTLING
Alabama Penn State (Now), but Iowa historically
Dynasty currently, so the best flock there. Historical dynasty as well
tOSU tOSU
Flashes of brilliance, and a steady at the top
Clemson Michigan
Had a good year, but not long term sustained or a trend
PSU Iowa
Dynasty - having a good year, but in a conference with powerhouses. Will
rise again
Notre Dame Oklahoma State
Historical dynasty, but the brass has a little tarnish
FSU NC State
Good and stays close to the top, but not cracking the top
Florida Missouri
Good and in the fray, but not a top contender
GO HAWKS!!!!!
From: Herky <herky-bounces at lists.herky.net
<mailto:herky-bounces at lists.herky.net> > On Behalf Of June Hauck
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 7:22 PM
To: herky at lists.herky.net <mailto:herky at lists.herky.net>
Subject: Re: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if
you like wrestling!
Do you think our program will ever be back to the level of winning a
national championship again, or are those days over?
June H.
From: Curtis Frazier
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 6:12 PM
To: herky at lists.herky.net <mailto:herky at lists.herky.net>
Subject: Re: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if
you like wrestling!
Well, it was not the best B10 tournament ever, but we expected this to be a
rebuilding year. Here is how we did:
Weight My Prediction B10 Tourney Pre-Seed
Actual Placement
+/Even/- to pre-seeds
125 1st
2nd 3rd
-
133 8th
N/A DNP
Even
141 5th
N/A 5th
+
149 2nd
2nd 2nd
Even
157 1st
1st (Tie) 6th (Medical forfeited 5th place match)
-
165 2nd
2nd 6th
-
174 4th
7th 6th
+
184 6th
8th 8th
Even
197 3rd
3rd 6th (Medical forfeited 5th place match)
-
HWT 3rd
4th 4th
Even
Team: 4th Place (1=PSU, 2 = tOSU, 3 = Michigan) We
finished 4th behind these teams, with tOSU winning, PSU = 2, UM = 3
So overall, we had 4 guys wrestle to their seeds, 2 guys wrestle above their
seeds, and 4 wrestle below their seeds (2 Medical forfeits but below their
seeds, 1 train wreck of a tournament for Marinelli and 2 weight classes -
125 and 165 being the most loaded in the nation). All in all, what should
have been expected. I think the national tournament will show better for us,
but the wheels are not off the bus. Here is the synopsis:
125: Lost 1 tough match to a stud and 4x big 10 champ. I look for him to
bounce at NCAA's and be a potential finalist...as a true freshman
133: Nothing to shame here - he tried real hard, but the kid is just not
Iowa caliber. Hope we can fix this next year, b/c he cannot hold the
starting position
141: REAL good tourney for this guy. Could do damage at NCAAs, but impressed
with his efforts
149: 2nd place. You don't lose to the same guy 7 times and expect any
different results the 8th time if you do not change your approach. Thanks
for 4 great years, BS!
157: Sick..and it showed. Good idea to medical out, heal up, and come back
fresh to NCAA's. Could be a finalist.
165: Bad, bad tourney. If he watches and learns, he will easily be an AA.
Could even make to the finals
174: Showed better wrestling and guts. Could be a fringe AA, but definitely
1-2 wins at the tourney if he pushes the pace.
184: Not a great showing, but he made it to the NCAA's. All we can ask for.
197: Really a poor showing. Might be because he is a natural 184 lb'er, but
it was just lackluster overall. Medical forfeit could be b/c of the flu.
HWT: 3 studs ahead of him. I am hopeful he can knock off just 1 of them come
tournament time
From: Herky [mailto:herky-bounces at lists.herky.net] On Behalf Of Curtis
Frazier
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 4:40 PM
To: herky at lists.herky.net <mailto:herky at lists.herky.net>
Subject: [Herky] Wrestling Recap - Pre Big Ten Tourney - Read only if you
like wrestling!
All,
I am out of hibernation and now it is time for my annual recap going into
the lull before the Big Ten tournament. Contrary to what everyone is
hearing, I think that is an impressive team. I would venture to say that the
talent in many weight classes is some of the best we have had in a long
time. The problem is that PSU and tOSU have incredible teams (and are in
conference), and Michigan is very respectable.
I think we have a legitimate shot at 5 finalists (or at least 4 and a dark
horse), and 2 with a pretty good shot to win it all - 125 (Lee), 149
(Sorenson, or SOAR), 157 (Kemerer, or KemDawg), 165 (Marinelli, or The
Bull), and 285 (Stoll) all are some of the best we have. That is the good
news. The bad news is that each of these guys have almost an
unbelievable/unbeatable talent ALSO in their weight class, and ALSO in their
conference! Here is MY view of their toughest competition:
Our Strong Potential Finalists
125: Lee (IA) vs. Nathan Thomasello (tOSU) - National
Champion in 2015, 3x All American (1st,3rd,3rd ). Spencer beat him, but it
is not an easy feat to repeat.
149: Sorenson (IA) vs. Zain Retherford (PSU) - Returning 2x
National Champion. Hodge Trophy winner, and probably the best wrestler (or
2nd best) in college. Sorenson has NEVER beat him, but has come close last
year.
157: Kemerer (IA) vs. Jason Nolf (PSU) - Returning National
Champ and 3x All American. There is a strong chance that he will not wrestle
due to injury, which could be huge. Kemerer just needs to work on his
conditioning and last until and through the 3rd period with the same
intensity and no one else will beat him
165: Marinelli (IA) vs. Vincenzo Joseph (PSU) - Returning
National Champion. Thick and quick, The Bull just beat him in their last
pairing, but I do not see that as an overly easy feat to repeat.
Hwt Stoll (IA) vs. Kyle Snyder (tOSU) & Adam Coon (UM) -
Kyle is an Olympic Champ, World Champion, 3x All American and finalist, and
a 2x National Champ. And arguably the best wrestler in the world at this
weight. And...Adam Coon just beat him. Adam is a 2x All American (3rd & 2nd
) and just beat Sam In the last dual. Both guys are beasts and Sam will face
one of them prior to the finals.
Our remaining lineup
133: Paul Glynn He is scrappy and tries hard, but is not ready
to come out of the oven yet. He could have 1-2 upsets, but I honestly do not
think he will be ready to win more than 1-2 at the B10's and probably the
same at NCAA, if that. This is one of our focus areas for next year and hope
is that Max Murin can cut to this weight and backfill here. It is a hole in
our lineup, most definitely. Bummer that Senior Philip Laux could not show
more consistency. Another likely guy is Justin Stickley (sorry, but all 3
options are quite interchangeable, thus the problem).
141 Vince Turk Similar to the above - not quite ready for
Prime Time. He has a single 'go to move' that is easily shut down. If he
keeps his intensity and tries other things, he may do 1 match better than
our 133lb class. Outside chance that they would put in Carter Happel instead
(4x Iowa State Champ in IA) as they have been splitting time in the lineup.
Happel has knocked off a few ranked guys, but just does not have the
maturity to be consistent. However, I think Brands prefers Turk.
174 Joey Gunther People like him and I do as well, but I don't
think he has the talent to make the podium..yet. He will do well and stay
close to most, but he just does not have the offense to beat the elite right
now. Another wrestler that may make this spot is Kaleb Young. He has been
inserted into the lineup a few times and I, personally, like him. I think he
has a bigger engine and sense of urgency and could do slightly better.
184 Mitch Bowman He is a scrapper and is a little hot & cold, but he
hangs in there. Could finish middle of the pack at B10's and might be a
round of 12 at NCAA's. Could slip in as low All American.
197 Cash Wilcke Another good wrestler with a bad mojo right now.
He has not been wrestling good as of late - no gas at end, letting others
finish moves at end of period, etc. if Brands (x2) can get him out of his
own head and wrestling with aggression, he could be an AA (he was 1 match
away from All American last year). Easily the best athlete on the team (look
at his bio!), and can do really well.
So, My predictions? Here they are:
Weight Big 10 Tournament NCAA Tournament
125 1st
1st
133 8th
DNP
141 5th
DNP
149 2nd
2nd
157 1st
1st
165 2nd
2nd
174 4th
8th
187 6th
DNP
197 3rd
5th
HWT 3rd
3rd
Team: 4th Place (1=PSU, 2 = tOSU, 3 = Michigan)
Bad news: We lose only Brandon Sorenson (149) to graduation
Good news: We can reload at 149 with slight caliber loss (Pat Lugo)
We get Jacob Warner in the lineup
We get Anthony Cassioppi in the room and 'on deck' at HWT
Looking FAR ahead to next year:
125 Spencer Lee (Solid)
133 Max Murin (or unknown transfer)
141 Carter Happel (could be the go forward with a little more
room time)
149 Pat Lugo (Edinboro transfer - should be immediate All
American candidate)
157 Michael Kemerer (and Brands coming in as a true freshman
for backfill)
165 Alex Marinelli (Solid)
174 Mitch Bowman (wouldn't surprise me if Kaleb Young gets the
nod, though)
184 Cash Wilcke (dropping weight, keeping muscle, kicking a**)
197 Jacob Warner (VERY good freshman waiting his turn)
HWT Stoll (Solid) (and we are bringing in a stud in Anthony
Cassioppi to backfill)
_____
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